Apples and oranges
(When i blog, i dont care for neither grammar or spelling. So it might be some errors in the text. The world will still live to see another day regardless.)
I saw the discussion started by NaNiwa. Its a blog that he wrote in Swedish, but my plan is to answer it in English. For everyone to understand.
NaNiwa pretty much sums up the MOBA-genre with saying its like lottery. The skillgap is supersmall, and compared to SC2 its really nothing skillwise.
This discussion has been going on for a long while, but
i thought at this time it shouldve been over. I guess not.
So im gonna help NaNiwa understand some things about Dota.
Hey, even LOL and HoN comes under this discussion.
When e-sports is compared to sports you always get to the part where people saying "heck, sitting at a computer should be a sport? thats dumb" an then these people watch curling and think that thats a fullblown sport. Because they dont sit at a computer. Anyone with any e-sport experience understand that the missunderstanding that e-sport is just "sitting at a computer" comes out of not having experience enough. We realise that the people judging e-sports as "sitting at a computer" just hasnt played, or had enough insights to e-sports.
Thats the problem with NaNiwa and the MOBA-genre. He doesnt have enough insight. He shares this missunderstanding with alot of "good" players aswell. So people might end up agreeing with him.
Because if you join a pubgame, playing for yourself and trying to win a game of Dota or LOL or even HoN you soon realise that this is a really simple game. And it is. Microwise if you compare Dota to Starcraft its gonna be dumb. In dota you might only have to control one hero, in Starcraft it tons of units. Here starcraft completely beats Dota when it comes to skill.
But when you play a highlevel teamgame of dota there is a complete different story. Imagine you want your Zealots to move left and then go in NaNiwa. Now you have to realise that this move is not made by you, its made by your teammate. You can just hope that it happens, and that your teammate understand that this attack should be made as you understand it.
There is micro in dota aswell, some heroes more microoriented then others. But mostly its the ability to get the fights to be balanced within the team. In Starcraft you make the right moves with ur units, all according to a plan and your tactics, the same moves are made in dota, just in a game like dota you have to be able to cooperate with your teammates to do it.
One could claim that the more advanced, or the more buttons you have to click, the more skill the game requires. Then i guess fotball would be one of the most easy sports in the world. And it probably is. Still even amazing players are not considered amazing if they are not able to cooperate with their team and play out their role completely. Wether its beeing the goalkeeper or defending, or scoring.
And ofcourse, if you join in on a game of fotboll with people who are bad, you are able to both attack and defend, both score and make sure the enemys doesnt score. But if your up against a team who plays decent, they will stop you. Regardless of your skill.
See, thats the difference between SC and MOBA. In SC you just have to be you. Cooperating with yourself is not so hard, you know one side of the brain wants to attack, and the other aswell, and then you bring your Zealots? in to the enemy base, and everything is fine. Your micro will be highly required, especially if your enemy has picked up the right units and has a big army. But if you picked the right strategy it might require less micro. Very simular to dota in that sense. But you go in and strike.
We on the other hand always have to care for the team, have to make sure we take the same decision as the team wants. In SC i think its the same. Sometimes you might have more then 1 way to deal with the enemy, but your army always makes the same decision. In dota, your team have to make this decision. You could claim that this is easy, or even just luckbased, but the only thing i hear when i read a comment like that NaNiwa is
"Ive never really played MOBA-games on a high level"
In the end of your text. Your saying SC2 is like wimbeldon, and Moba is like playing with a yoyo. And again, your making the same misstake as earlier NaNiwa. Talking about things
you have no clue about. I suggest you watch this clip. Tennis looks easy when you compare it.
NaNiwa pretty much sums up the MOBA-genre with saying its like lottery. The skillgap is supersmall, and compared to SC2 its really nothing skillwise.
This discussion has been going on for a long while, but
i thought at this time it shouldve been over. I guess not.
So im gonna help NaNiwa understand some things about Dota.
Hey, even LOL and HoN comes under this discussion.
When e-sports is compared to sports you always get to the part where people saying "heck, sitting at a computer should be a sport? thats dumb" an then these people watch curling and think that thats a fullblown sport. Because they dont sit at a computer. Anyone with any e-sport experience understand that the missunderstanding that e-sport is just "sitting at a computer" comes out of not having experience enough. We realise that the people judging e-sports as "sitting at a computer" just hasnt played, or had enough insights to e-sports.
Thats the problem with NaNiwa and the MOBA-genre. He doesnt have enough insight. He shares this missunderstanding with alot of "good" players aswell. So people might end up agreeing with him.
Because if you join a pubgame, playing for yourself and trying to win a game of Dota or LOL or even HoN you soon realise that this is a really simple game. And it is. Microwise if you compare Dota to Starcraft its gonna be dumb. In dota you might only have to control one hero, in Starcraft it tons of units. Here starcraft completely beats Dota when it comes to skill.
But when you play a highlevel teamgame of dota there is a complete different story. Imagine you want your Zealots to move left and then go in NaNiwa. Now you have to realise that this move is not made by you, its made by your teammate. You can just hope that it happens, and that your teammate understand that this attack should be made as you understand it.
There is micro in dota aswell, some heroes more microoriented then others. But mostly its the ability to get the fights to be balanced within the team. In Starcraft you make the right moves with ur units, all according to a plan and your tactics, the same moves are made in dota, just in a game like dota you have to be able to cooperate with your teammates to do it.
One could claim that the more advanced, or the more buttons you have to click, the more skill the game requires. Then i guess fotball would be one of the most easy sports in the world. And it probably is. Still even amazing players are not considered amazing if they are not able to cooperate with their team and play out their role completely. Wether its beeing the goalkeeper or defending, or scoring.
And ofcourse, if you join in on a game of fotboll with people who are bad, you are able to both attack and defend, both score and make sure the enemys doesnt score. But if your up against a team who plays decent, they will stop you. Regardless of your skill.
See, thats the difference between SC and MOBA. In SC you just have to be you. Cooperating with yourself is not so hard, you know one side of the brain wants to attack, and the other aswell, and then you bring your Zealots? in to the enemy base, and everything is fine. Your micro will be highly required, especially if your enemy has picked up the right units and has a big army. But if you picked the right strategy it might require less micro. Very simular to dota in that sense. But you go in and strike.
We on the other hand always have to care for the team, have to make sure we take the same decision as the team wants. In SC i think its the same. Sometimes you might have more then 1 way to deal with the enemy, but your army always makes the same decision. In dota, your team have to make this decision. You could claim that this is easy, or even just luckbased, but the only thing i hear when i read a comment like that NaNiwa is
"Ive never really played MOBA-games on a high level"
In the end of your text. Your saying SC2 is like wimbeldon, and Moba is like playing with a yoyo. And again, your making the same misstake as earlier NaNiwa. Talking about things
you have no clue about. I suggest you watch this clip. Tennis looks easy when you compare it.
When you click your units, when you make them walk in special patterns, and focusing out the right enemy units. Im impressed, because i can understand that you have a great deal of microskills. You truly have learned a above-human skill when it comes to controlling your units. I sometimes watch SC2, and im amazed.
Gamers definently should stick up for eachother, even eachothers games. Heck, i might think that SC2 in particular is very bad for peoples social lifes, since its (mostly) played by one. But instead i can focus on talking about the amazing micromanagementskills which is inside that game. Its all a matter of where you decide to put your focus.
But when you use a channel like your blog to, after one of the biggest competitions in dota2, when you use that channel to start trashtalking the moba-genre. Then i can only guess that the motive is that you feel envy. They already earned more then twice as you earned in your career. The Alliance players i mean. And i do belive you should be earning the same amount. Because i sincerely think you put down the same amount of time.
But comparing apples and oranges and start talking about low skillgap just makes you look dumb. Im sorry.